Updated: Jun 27
Once again, I decided to venture into Humanist territory by initiating a debate on the Facebook page of the “Friendly Atheist.” The Friendly Atheist is a well-known atheist/humanist blogger. The blogger shared a mocking post of a church sign which read “The more ‘educated’ we become, the farther we move away from God.” I was not concerned with debating the subject of the post, but rather, finding a humanist to ask challenging questions. I spotted CW’s comment below, and I decided to respond. Several other humanists jumped into the debate: BF, JF, and MV. This was a lengthy debate which ended up dwindling down to just a discussion between me and MV. MV is very respectful and knowledgeable, so I had an awesome discussion with him. I will share those parts of the debate in later blog posts. Below is Part 1 of this debate:
CW: That's because when you're educated, you don't need fairy tales.
Me: CW, do you believe life came from non-life, and that the universe was born from nothing?
CW: KH, I don't worry about it. All I am certain of is that there are no gods, especially the judeo-christian version, and that there is no life after death, heaven or hell. The physics of the origins of the universe and life can not be understood at this time, and to say, because you don't know any better "god did it" is a disingenuous cop out. However, it is possible for life to evolve from non-life given the right circumstances.
BF: KH, are you able to say "we don't have all the answers yet" or are you so egotistical that you believe humans have to explain everything now? Also, since you don't understand science, do you attribute everything you don't understand to a deity created by one particular primitive people among thousands?
Me: Have you ever observed or tested life evolving from non-life? And if the origins of the universe and life “cannot be understood,” then why are you so sure that it was not the result of supernatural creation?
BF: Kevin, humans used to believe the world was flat. They used to think the moon was a god. Just like most individuals, humans learned as they lived. The origins of life are admittedly fuzzy, but there have always been people like you who wanted to fill in the gaps of knowledge with nonsense. Congrats on being on the wrong side of progress.
Me: BF, in your naturalistic, atheistic worldview, how can you have “knowledge”? For the sake of argument, if your brain is the result of random chemical processes, then how can you trust your own conclusions to ever be accurate?
And why are you so offended by my challenging questions? You are throwing personal insults, such as “egotistical” and “you don’t understand science.” You don’t even know me. I have degrees in mechanical engineering and aeronautical engineering, so I certainly do have an appreciation for science. Let’s have a discussion without the ad hominem attacks.
CW: KH, Not yet, but it would be possible to do so if I had a long enough lifespan and an environment where the conditions were right. When we, as humans, can actually create life from non-life, what will you believers say then?
JF: KH, You are not asking challenging questions, you are begging the question. First, the universe did not come from "nothing". That is an inaccurate description of the events that created what we see as our physical universe, which appears to be one of many. Second, life from non-life? We have some description of how that occurs. Finally, if you question (again, incorrectly) that the universe could not come from nothing, then were did the creator of this universe come from? You simply assume that if you cannot understand something, then it must be a deity. As pointed out above, your god of the gaps argument fails.
JF: KH, OH, and engineer, which would definitely be qualified to discuss evolutionary biology. Sorry, now you pulled an appeal to authority logical fallacy.
Me: CW: great question. If life can be created from non-life, then that would imply that a non-intelligent source can somehow create information (DNA being an information language). When have we ever observed information, such as words in a book, created through random processes? If, hypothetically, we as humans manage to create life from “non-life,” then that life is not truly coming from non-life, because it is coming from an intelligent life source: humans.
Me: JF: tell me, in your worldview, where did the universe come from then? And how does our universe “appear” to be one of many if you have not observed multiple universes?
Also, you say you have a “description” of how life comes from non-life. Do you have an actual observation of life coming from non-life?
The God of the Bible is our “uncaused cause” of the universe. Tell me: what is your uncaused cause? What do you believe to be eternal if the universe did NOT come from nothing?
CW, BF, and JF did not respond after my last comment. MV joined the debate after this, and I will begin sharing that discussion in the next post!