Blame and Praise Debate: Block and Hide
Updated: Feb 15
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.—John 3:19-20 (NIV)
Many humanists that follow the Friendly Atheist (a blogger) revel in their hatred of God. If they truly believe their own worldview, that they themselves are accidental byproducts of random chemical processes, then why do they even care about anything? Why are they so passionate about their religion of humanism, and why do they attack the God of the Bible? The Bible verses from John shared above present one of several reasons. When light shines upon the darkness of their hearts, they often run and hide. One particular humanist did just that in the Blame and Praise Debate. In this case, it was more of a “block and hide.”
Recall that four different humanists replied to my first comment. AH's reply was the last of the four. However, right when I went to post the comment, I got an error message from Facebook. The entire thread completely disappeared. Humanist BF started the original thread, so I initially thought that he deleted his original comment which would have deleted the entire thread. However, it turns out that he tried to pull off a cowardly, deceptive trick to ban me from the thread and then subsequently declare victory. I found a way to call him out on his deceptive maneuver, thanks to my wife’s Facebook page. Below is Part 5 of 5 of the Blame and Praise debate.
Kevin Hadsall, Even if we assume you are correct when you say "Death and suffering is a consequence of man’s evil actions, so mankind ultimately deserves the “blame” for the 100% mortality rate", isn't there still a contradiction with giving God credit for saving people. If I am in a position to save some people from suffering (or death), even though they are to blame, and isn't saving them the good Christian thing to do. Wouldn't the same standard apply to God? If God has the power to do that saving but does not, isn't he making a choice to allow that suffering to continue. One argument I have heard Christians make in response to that is basically a version of "God works in mysterious waves" (the cop-out for contradictory behavior). If I grant there could be a beneficial result that God is trying to acheive by allowing suffering, couldn't an all powerful God achieve that result without the suffering?
BF: ^Nothing I love more than the religious kooks who copy and past Bible verse and retorts from websites who tell them how to reply to these questions. Absolutely hilarious.
[Note: I had to use my wife's Facebook page to post the comment below.]
Hey [BF]: this is Kevin Hadsall…my wife is letting me post this comment from her page. Apparently, you blocked me so that I could no longer reply to your thread. I had to log off Facebook just to see the thread. You said, “^Nothing I love more than the religious kooks who copy and past Bible verse and retorts from websites who tell them how to reply to these questions. Absolutely hilarious.” If I am simply copying and pasting pre-made replies/retorts, then why did you block me? That seems pretty cowardly. I had one more response to provide, which was in response to [AH], so I will share it here (and I suppose this may need to be my last response since I do not intend to keep asking my wife to borrow her Facebook):
First, I want to say that I appreciate the tone of your post: I assume you are seeking respectful, intellectual dialogue. I kind of agree with you that simply saying “God works in mysterious ways” does not answer the question very well. I do believe that specific circumstances are naturally mysterious: I can’t tell you why God in his sovereignty allowed person A to live a long, prosperous life, while person B lived a short, painful life. God didn’t tell me, and perhaps I just don’t need to know. However, there is still a general answer to your question that goes deeper than just using the “mysterious ways” phrase. God cares much more about our eternal state rather than lengthening our physical lives; our physical lives are already doomed because of sin (Genesis 3, Romans 5:12). Apparently, Jesus was asked a similar question to the one that you ask. As it is written in Luke 13:4-5, “Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” The connotation of “likewise perish” is referring to eternal death and condemnation. God already did the “good Christian thing” above and beyond anyone in history through the person and work of Jesus Christ. Although He is sinless, God the Son took the punishment on the cross that you and I deserve. In God’s economy, without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). God shed His blood on the cross so that those who turn from their evil ways and put their trust in Him can be “born again” into a “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17) and live forever with Him where there will be no more sin, no more pain, and no more suffering (Revelation 21). Therefore, while God in His sovereignty may allow suffering in this life, it is only temporary for those who repent and accept His free gift of salvation (and there is a biblical case for the concept that children who die before the “level of accountability” go to heaven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-1dyNGr4KA). “If I grant there could be a beneficial result that God is trying to achieve by allowing suffering, couldn't an all powerful God achieve that result without the suffering?” Speaking from personal testimony, I can think of many, specific ways that God allowed me to suffer in which it was for my benefit. With that being said, here is some food for thought: your question seems to presuppose that there are alternative plans and methods that would be wiser than God’s plans/methods…in your humanistic, evolutionary worldview, by what ultimate standard do you judge God’s plans to be unwise?
Shortly after that last comment, my wife's Facebook page was "blocked" as well. The next day, one of my wife's coworkers, who "follows" the Friendly Atheist, saw the thread and informed her of the current status. At that time, there were no additional responses, and I don't know if anyone ever did respond.
How did I know for sure that BF blocked me? I copy and paste the these threads in a Word document while engaging in debate. This includes the Facebook names/links. I found out I was personally blocked by BF when I tried clicking the link to his Facebook page. I didn't learn this until recently, but apparently if you block somebody on Facebook, not only is that person blocked from viewing your personal Facebook page, but they are also blocked from commenting on any threads that you initiate on other Facebook pages.
Now, as you can see from this debate, I criticized BF’s maneuver by calling it “cowardly.” On the surface, this may seem like an unloving response, and I do not typically employ that kind of criticism. However, I do believe there are times when a person’s actions require a harsh dose of truth. God’s Word includes numerous examples of this. Both John the Baptist and Jesus called out the Pharisees and Sadducees as a “brood of vipers” (Matthew 3:7, Matthew 12:34, Matthew 23:33, Luke 3:7). My hope and prayer for BF is that he is humbled after being caught red-handed in the midst of his cowardly act.
As for humanist AH, I do not know the intent of his heart, but I believe it’s possible that he might have been genuinely curious to seek answers to his questions. That is why I tried to build a little rapport with him by complementing him for his relatively respectful tone. My hope and prayer for him is that he takes my response to heart and realizes that only God is good and wise (Proverbs 1:7, Isaiah 55:8-9, Mark 10:18, Revelation 4:11).