The direction of the Bird Evolution Debate changed course to a deeper topic. Humanist JC asked me how I “…see the unquestionable and undeniable existence of God.” I answered him in regards to not just any generic “God,” but in regards to the God of the Bible.
See below for Part 5 of the Bird Evolution Debate. Names are abbreviated for privacy and brevity.
JC:
I understand your argument but I don't understand how you see the unquestionable and undeniable existence of God? Especially so in the image that most understand God and imagine God? It's the explanation given for what can't be explained for the sake of it. Personally, I can't do this. I've found too much contradiction and sheer confusion within a single religion on it's own.
Kevin:
One reason I see the unquestionable and undeniable existence of God is because He supernaturally changed me over 8 years ago, and now I know Him transcendently. Speaking of transcendence, the last sentence of your comment brings up an important topic. First, I don’t agree with the claim that the Bible has contradictions; all claimed contradictions are easily debunked, and there are several solid sources of research on that topic, such as this one: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/product/keeping-faith-in-an-age-of-reason/. Here’s the main point that I want to address: you imply that contradiction is a bad thing, and I agree with you on that. The consistent Christian agrees with the law of noncontradiction, because the God of the Bible cannot deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:13), and it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18). Since God upholds all things by his power (Hebrews 1:3), the universe should never contradict itself. For example, 2+2 should always equal 4, rather than 2+2 equaling 5. Yet, in a random, materialistic universe, why can’t 2+2=5? How does a materialistic universe, without an all-powerful, transcendent Creator, account for the law of noncontradiction? The law of noncontradiction transcends the chemical reactions in our brain, and is not limited to any culture or geographic location…it is absolutely universal. Consider the universality of the laws of logic: if someone were to try to argue against the existence of laws of logic, they would have to use logic to argue against logic…it’s self-refuting. The same applies to morality and laws of physics. The Bible accounts for these transcendent concepts. Therefore, when someone tries to argue against the Bible, they have to use biblical presuppositions such as morality, laws of logic, law of noncontradiction, and so forth, in an attempt to argue against the Bible. It becomes a self-refuting argument. The Bible accounts for the preconditions of intelligibility. If you become interested, here’s a book about that topic: https://biblicalscienceinstitute.com/product/ultimate-proof-of-creation/
I also see the resurrection of Jesus as a confirmation of the unquestionable and undeniable existence of the biblical God. No alternate theory can explain away the minimal facts that even secular scholars accept. I could go on about that, but my message is long enough. If you become interested, here’s an article to learn more: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/resurrection/resurrection-no-doubt-about-it/
JC:
Kevin, I've had Transcendental experiences and they've always were completely beyond the religious dogma beliefs. Thought I can't deny your experience, I will say that there's no way in hell that I can be convinced in the validity in what you have chosen to believe. I've got countless reasons why I can't agree and won't agree with your belief.
Kevin:
JC, I can’t say much about the transcendental experiences that you had, not knowing them, but I appreciate your consideration of my testimony. I understand what you’re saying; I can continue to refute the evolutionary worldview and defend biblical truth using logic and observational science, but that does not necessarily mean that I will persuade you. As it is written in the book of Luke:
“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house—for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”—Luke 16:27-31
Ultimately, it’s the Holy Spirit that does the persuasion, and each person makes their own choice on how to respond.
I don’t know if this is where our debate ends, but if it is, I just want to reiterate that I appreciate our discussion. May God bless you.
JC:
I ask you this. Why would one's prayers be denied after a lifetime of asking for truth? Personally, I did get the answer. It was something completely different from Christianity and all other religions. I learned that they are notorious for misguidance. Too often cultivate hatred. Now, speaking with you I didn't get this so I must speak to you with great respect. I've enjoyed our banter. What I have to say is my answer to my prayers brought to the realization that, what we've spoke about, in truth, is beyond what any recognized religion today preaches. True spirituality must be an individual pursuit, without the contamination of religious dogma. The Bible, Torah and Quran only confuse and become tools for the unscrupulous to justify their means. I'm a happy and content person who doesn't fear death except if mine will be painful. I have discovered what I needed to find. I wish you well, my friend. Also wish to apologise if I came off abrasive in the beginning of our communication. I didn't intend to be that way towards you personally. 😊
Kevin:
Apology accepted, and thank you for your kind words toward me. You ask a great question regarding prayer. I have one thing to say here for public benefit, but the rest I will leave for Facebook Messenger (you may need to check your “other” inbox in Messenger). Here's a question (perhaps rhetorical) in response to your question: if someone wants to seek the truth, are they willing to accept that truth, no matter how hard it is?
JC’s question about the undeniable existence of God represents the real heart of the matter. Perhaps he was beginning to understand the flaws of the evolutionary worldview, but holds on to that view because he does not want to surrender (at least not at this time) to the truth of the Gospel. I had a brief, private message conversation with JC after this thread, which will remain private. Other than that, this is where my discussion with JC concluded. With that said, I commend JC for becoming much more respectful toward me, and also for his willingness to have some constructive dialogue.
The Bird Evolution debate continues with humanists ZD and LB. In Part 6 of the debate, ZD claims that I do not understand biological evolution, and that it is simply caused by “environmental pressure.” I will share that portion of the debate in my next blog post.